Posts by Ultimate Reality

48

What do you think about Revelation?

by wantstoleave in

15 years ago

how do you put the bible book of revelation into perspective?

do you see it as real?

metaphorical?

15 years ago

Ultimate Reality 15 years ago

There are a number of excellent books on a pre-70CE view for Revelation. Check out Before Jerusalem Fell by Kenneth Gentry. If you would like a compelling interpretation on this view, that examines the entire NT from the standpoint of the 1st century Christians expecting the parousia within their generation, check out James Stewart Russell's book: The Parousia: A Careful Look at the New Testament Doctrine of the Lord's Second Coming (1878).

If you take this view, the Great Tribulation and the "end" came in 70 C.E. when Christ returned to execute judgement on the apostate harlot Babylon the Great: Apostate Jerusalem. It would have been at that time Christ gathered and sealed the 144,000 (be it literal or figurative) from the converted Jews and Gentile Christians. We are now in a figurative 1000 years waiting for the remaining few chapters of Revelation to be fulfilled.

I am not saying this is truth--each should come to their own conclusion. However, as "bible students" this a viewpoint that we should know. It is NOT a view that organized religion wants to hear because it takes away fear.

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48

What do you think about Revelation?

by wantstoleave in

15 years ago

how do you put the bible book of revelation into perspective?

do you see it as real?

metaphorical?

15 years ago

Ultimate Reality 15 years ago

I think it was written before 70 C.E.

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18

2009 Sing to Jehovah Lyrics--PDF----by request!

by Atlantis in

15 years ago

2009 sing to jehovah lyrics--pdf----by request!

request from researcher: i heard about this file but never received a copy and wondered if you had it.

can i get a copy?

14 years ago

Ultimate Reality 15 years ago

Here's my favorite: We have God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. Oh wait. Jesus is out and has been replaced by "the slave", God's steward.

011 Making Jehovah’s Heart Glad

(Proverbs 27:11)

1. Great God, we’ve vowed to do your will;

In wisdom your work we’ll fulfill.

For then we know we’ll have a part

In making glad your loving heart.

2. Your slave, your steward here on earth,

Proclaims your greatness and your worth,

Feeds us with nourishment when due,

Thus strengthens us your will to do.

3. Impart to us your active force,

That we may keep a faithful course

And bring forth fruitage to your praise

And thus make glad your heart always.

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6

Watchtower Chronology 1823 to present

by Ultimate Reality in

16 years ago

over the course of a few years, and thanks to many on this board, i have assembled a history of the watchtower's most relevant articles that show the development of the 70 years, 607 b.c.e.

and how these ultimately get calculated to reach "the last days" with the appointment of the "faithful slave".. .

the following link contains a pdf with very little commentary and minimal notes.

16 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

Thank you to all...

If anyone has questions on any of the quotes, please feel free to post them or send a PM.

--U R

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6

Watchtower Chronology 1823 to present

by Ultimate Reality in

16 years ago

over the course of a few years, and thanks to many on this board, i have assembled a history of the watchtower's most relevant articles that show the development of the 70 years, 607 b.c.e.

and how these ultimately get calculated to reach "the last days" with the appointment of the "faithful slave".. .

the following link contains a pdf with very little commentary and minimal notes.

16 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

Over the course of a few years, and thanks to many on this board, I have assembled a history of the Watchtower's most relevant articles that show the development of the 70 years, 607 B.C.E. and how these ultimately get calculated to reach "the last days" with the appointment of the "faithful slave".

The following link contains a PDF with very little commentary and minimal notes. The purpose of this document is not to openly attack the chronology but to let the inconsistencies and, in some cases, outright lies speak for themselves. Therefore, the reader still needs to add up what this really means. However, the document can fill a need that many on this board have to address this key issue with their loved ones.

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=61ec893283371ad7a0194551cb56e1dd

In many cases, excuses for the Society and its teachings are claimed by both witnesses and the Society itself. However, these excuses vanish if it can be proven quantitatively that it is impossible for the Society to have been appointed by Christ...even assuming if all the secondary fulfillment concepts were true. The flawed chronology and the flawed interpretation and application of the 70 years show that this is just another religion and that the bible is not written as a code and riddle that men in Brooklyn were appointed to decipher to their own benefit.

I hope this document helps...

You will note that the page numbers start a 30, this is because this is part of a larger document (formatted in the same fashion) that I will post in the future.

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34

1930's Great Crowd - Still a "generation" problem?

by xelder in

16 years ago

the recent "generation" explanation redo says that the generation means the anointed living now, and we can still have more anointed, therefore there is no limit on how long the generation can run.

this is an attempt to keep 1914 alive and healthy.. however, the wts still teaches that the great crowd began to be gathered in the 1930's (ex: rutherford had people stand and said "behold, the great multitude) since revelation defines the great crowd as coming out of the great tribulation, doesn't that create a life span problem?

what is going through the minds of even the youngest baptized 10 year old members of the great crowd in 1935 who are now in there 80's.. the other sheep of john 10 seems to fit a discription of gentiles.

16 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

This is a big problem for them and they know it. As discussed, they will likely force down some totally illogical "new light" on the matter. Those faithful to the Governing Body will obey. I think all this talk about fear of apostates and loyalty to the GB in recent Watchtowers is preparation for the new teachings that are needed for a new generation of Witnesses.

The 1984 Survival book on page 185 says that God did not call the Great Crowd too soon...but the first ones called are dead.

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11

California abductor has JW link

by Not Feeling It in

16 years ago

anyone hear about the ca abductor having a jw link via his wife?

i heard something from geraldo rivera on tv this morning.

his wife is/was associated.

16 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

BTTT...

Any here at Bethel that can confirm his JW status? I have to think the Public Information Office telephone in Brooklyn is ringing with inquiring minds...

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45

What's with all the 'Imminent' nonsense?

by AK - Jeff in

16 years ago

could it be that the proximity of 2014 is at the heart of it?.

i have no contact with jw's - except on this board - but my wife does at times with her family.

imminent is the cry of the sky for the jw's it seems.. i recall the years leading up to 1975 with a lot of that sort of thing.

12 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

From my DC: "Armageddon is not around the corner...it's on the block and it coming straight ahead!"

This was repeated several times along with the stock prices of certain U.S. corporations and references to how the world needs a "spiritual stimulus package" -- which is what the new brochure provides.

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8

Unusual "Experience" at the DC yesterday - Apostasy & Honor Killing

by Ultimate Reality in

jw
friends

16 years ago

during the concluding part on sunday's dc at the stanley theater, a missionary was interviewed and asked to give an encouraging experience from his assignment in an african country.. he started off by saying his "experience was bitter-sweet".

it was about a woman in her mid-20's that became a witness.

but she was a muslim and her mother had her hunted down and murdered as an honor-killing.

16 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

Personally, I think the missionary went off-script and made a point about apostasy. He could have just said that she was killed for changing her religion. Perhaps he isn't fully on-board.

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8

Unusual "Experience" at the DC yesterday - Apostasy & Honor Killing

by Ultimate Reality in

jw
friends

16 years ago

during the concluding part on sunday's dc at the stanley theater, a missionary was interviewed and asked to give an encouraging experience from his assignment in an african country.. he started off by saying his "experience was bitter-sweet".

it was about a woman in her mid-20's that became a witness.

but she was a muslim and her mother had her hunted down and murdered as an honor-killing.

16 years ago

Ultimate Reality 16 years ago

During the concluding part on Sunday's DC at the Stanley Theater, a missionary was interviewed and asked to give an encouraging experience from his assignment in an African country.

He started off by saying his "experience was bitter-sweet". It was about a woman in her mid-20's that became a witness. But she was a muslim and her mother had her hunted down and murdered as an honor-killing. Why? Because, as the missionary stated, "she converted to Christianity and they [Muslims] view that as apostasy."

He then tried to connect that horrific story to the story of another unrelated man that was muslim and eventually got baptized. I found it quite unusual and wondered if this brother went off-script by mentioning this murdered sister.

Especially in light of:

“We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization…”

“Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent…” – Watchtower, November 15, 1952

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